EP:66 - Entrepreneur Inspiration - From Corporate to Entrepreneur: Nicolas Kurban’s Journey in the Culinary World

Nicolas Kurban is a seasoned restaurateur with a rich background in the culinary world. Nicolas has managed prestigious restaurants and food and beverage operations in Las Vegas and Atlantic City and now brings his expertise to Delray Beach, Florida, with his unique Lebanese restaurant, Ammar. From his early days helping his father in Lebanon to his current ventures, Nicolas's journey is one of dedication and passion for the restaurant industry.

Nicolas shares his journey from Lebanon to the U.S., detailing his transition from managing family-owned restaurants to leading high-end dining establishments in Las Vegas. He discusses the challenges and successes of opening Ammar during the COVID-19 pandemic, emphasizing the importance of consistency, quality, and customer service. The episode also highlights his future plans, including expanding Ammar and launching a high-end pizzeria.

If you are interested in restaurant management, entrepreneurship, and culinary innovation will find valuable insights in this episode. Nicolas discusses innovative restaurant trends, the significance of maintaining high standards, and strategies for staff retention and customer satisfaction. Keywords such as "restaurant management," "culinary innovation," and "customer service excellence" are woven throughout the conversation, providing actionable advice for aspiring restaurateurs and entrepreneurs.



Three Questions Answered in this Episode:
1. How can innovative restaurant management techniques enhance customer satisfaction?
2. What strategies does Nicolas Kurban use to maintain high standards in his restaurant?
3. How did Nicolas Kurban successfully transition from corporate food and beverage operations to owning his own restaurant?

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Transcript

0:23

Just because a guest told me, you know, he'd rather have this on the menu, doesn't mean I'm going to, like, react, because sometimes that's not who I am, and I'm okay not satisfying everyone. You cannot be everything for everyone. Hey, everybody in the OWL community. We have another episode here on the OWL Podcast. We have now over 70 episodes. Me and my co-host, Eli Santra, over here, and this is getting fun. We keep on bringing in such amazing people in this world that are really just making an impact, and it's awesome. So we're going to get right into it. This is the show that is powered by Celsius Beverage, and we are doing big things on the OWL Lab. I'm going to let Eli Santra do the honor to welcome our guest. So we all love to eat here at OWL. We love eating. We love eating. Too much. I'm excited to go to Ammar now. Now, after this episode, we have to do a lunch date there, but I'm going to introduce Nicholas Kurban. He is an entrepreneur. He's worked... Well, you can tell them. How long have you... You're a restaurant owner. How long have you worked in this industry, the food industry? Well, first, thank you for having me. I would say I've been in this industry all my life. I grew up in a restaurant business, and my dad owned restaurants in Lebanon, so I kind of, whether I liked it or not, was involved in it as a young kid. And you grow that passion, and I helped him run his restaurant, get involved early, worked hard with him, and kind of learned from him a lot. And then I ended up coming to the U.S., went to Ohio State, studied hospitality management, and went back home. The intention was always to go back home to Lebanon and run the family business. People are nice in Ohio, right? My wife's from Ohio. I feel like everyone I meet from Ohio has good gestures, good etiquette. It must have been a culture shock, though. It was a culture shock. It was a culture shock to come to Ohio State. I went to the biggest campus in the world, and here I am, not even 18 years old, hardly spoken English. Yeah, I was going to say, did you speak English? I mean, I spoke a little bit. It was my third language. But yeah, it was a culture shock. But I had friends, and it was a fun time to be there. I learned a lot. So yeah, so I've been in this business for a long time. I don't know if I know anything else, but done a lot of stuff. Entrepreneur, working family, then ended up transitioning into working for some great companies, great chefs, and then full circle, a few years ago, decided to go back to the entrepreneur, open my own restaurant. So I guess, what was the transition like? So you go to college, you go back home, you work for the family business, I'm guessing. And then what was the next step to coming back to the States? And were you working for a company here, or were you deciding, I want to go in the US and open my own place? Yeah, good question. I mean, my first job, not working for my family, I was like 35 years old. So it was definitely a shock, because usually people will start working for companies, they get the experience, and then they take me there. I kind of did it the opposite way, where I was always intention, go study, come back, help me run the business, came back to Lebanon, helped my dad grow the restaurant, opened a couple more restaurants when I was like, not even 25 years old. But then, as everyone know, the area was a bit troubled. So, you know, my wife was from Ohio, and my daughter, so we decided to come back, we felt that there'll be a better future for them here in the US. And I made the transition. Now, it was a huge shock, because here I am, owning my own business in Lebanon, people know who I was. Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure because of your family, too, it's like... And I came back here, and I thought, well, no one cared who I was, like, but yeah, yeah, like, we don't care, you know, so I had to kind of prove myself, I had to really go back and work as a manager, and kind of try to make a name of myself. While I was like, in my mid 30s, like, you know, it was a big shock. And where in the States were you at that time? In Ohio? No, no, never went back to Ohio. Yeah, yeah. It's not like the restaurant capital and you think... No, I mean, I think I came back a little bit in Detroit, a little bit in DC, but really ended up in Las Vegas. And that really was, I think, was a big turning point for my career. Las Vegas at that point, I think it was 2000, 2001, like kind of really was up and coming. A lot of celebrity chefs were opening food and beverage and wine and fine dining became like a staple. Every casino wanted to upstage the other casino, you know, I'll bring Wolfgang Puck, I'll bring Bobby Flay, I'll bring Thomas Keller, I'll bring Alain Ducasse, you know, so everyone wanted to bring more. So it was, I was there at the right time, worked for a small company, and then got recruited by Wolfgang Puck. You know, I had a friend who worked, who was the vice president there. And really, that kind of, you know, I kind of proved myself. And within two years, I became director of operations for the Wolfgang Puck. And then Thomas Keller decided to open his first restaurant outside Yonville. And I was recruited to open Bouchon in the Venetian. And then I ended up being director of operations for Thomas Keller, worked in Vegas, worked in New York, worked in Yonville, Napa Valley, helped him run his operation, and then decided to transition into the bigger picture, into the casino business. So I went from, you know, working for restaurants per se, transitioning into becoming director of fine dining for Wynn, vice president for Borgata, and then really took it to another level where my focus wasn't anymore only on restaurant, was running the entire food and beverage department. We're talking here $200, $300 million worth of food and beverage in a casino, right? Yeah, well, they get the free drinks too. Like, you know, 20 restaurants, nightclub, you know, 2,000 room room service, catering, pool service, cocktail, like, you know, so it's a big department, 2,000, 3,000 employee report to that department, a lot of moving parts, you know, and I kept on going in that route and, you know. You're talking to the right audience. I mean, Jason loves casinos. That's like, when I go on vacation, I like to go to, like, Europe. I was just at the Venetian. I stayed at like half the hotels on the Shreves. I really enjoyed it. I play a lot of poker. So as a professional in college, I was playing online gambling with the poker boom, and then I started gambling at the Borgata, and then you start getting free rooms everywhere. You play in the Caesars Network and Caesars Connect in Vegas, and all of a sudden I'm getting room offers to Vegas, and then all of a sudden you play at MGM, and it's like Caesars and MGM own three quarters of Vegas pretty much, and then it's hard to say no when there's cheap flights from New York to Vegas for $200, $300, and you have a free room waiting for you at a five-star hotel, but of course there's issues in Vegas right now. Look at the Fountain Blue, like how much money they're losing, or Revel opened up in AC, renamed to Oceans, and I kind of keep up with a lot of this because I still go to the Borgata in the summertime when I visit family up north. So how do you keep it hot? You managed the win, which never really fell off. You did work with Borgata. It never fell off, but other casinos do. You see them kind of come and go or never even figure it out. Like Resorts World right now, it seems like they can't figure it out, and it seems like Fountain Blue is going the same direction. So how do you keep up with these trends to kind of, you know, just hotels like the win that just don't? Yeah, look, I mean, I think you have to have an organization that believes in the food and beverage and believes in putting money in food and beverage and bringing the chefs. So that's the first step, right? You can bring someone like Bobby Flay, Wolfgang Puck, Thomas Keller, Michael Mina, you know, Michael Simon. All of them, you can bring them. Pay them money. They will come and create something, you know. But there's two things. First, you have to keep up with the execution, right? I mean, at the end, the name is not enough. OK, so I think what Borgata did or what win did, you know, were not only they brought the chef, but they actually operate the restaurants. You know, the one of the biggest mistakes a lot of the casino do or the four, you know, they will they will bring the chefs and tell the chefs to run it. OK, and these chefs who have 50, 40, 50 restaurants around the world, trust me, they're not going to have a focus on your restaurant in Las Vegas when they are in Florida, when they're in Hong Kong or in New York, you know, because that's not what they do. They can't spend so much time. So to me, it's license the name, bring the expertise. But you as an organization, you bring vice president. That's what I've done. And you bring director of fine dining and you bring executive and wine sommeliers. And then you run the show and then you give the chef a little bit of the top line, a little money, and you hold them account a little bit on the food where part of this agreement, you say you have to come three times, four times a year to work on the menu or whatever it is. But I don't need anything else from you because you cannot run this restaurant from New York or in Las Vegas. So if you look at the win at the Borgata or some of the, you know, some GM, they're putting more focus on this. So they're more relevant. That's one reason why. The second is you have to, you know, food and beverage is a continuous evolvement. What was what was happening 10 years ago or 20 years ago is not happening anymore. The food trend has changed. The taste of the, you know, now there's a little bit more food, you know, more vegan, maybe more options. The millennials are different. You know what? I always like small plates, you know, for bigger groups. And you can share a lot. And I think that's also the yeah. So, yes, you got to have your steakhouse. You got to have your Italian for sure. But it's not anymore enough. Right. Lebanese food is in Mediterranean. It's very in the experience is very in Korean food is in, you know, all that stuff, all that stuff right now that create the success of a restaurant or a hotel or everything. So you have to play in all these fields, whether social media, whether it be trendy, change your menu, upgrade, make events. You just can't sit back and say, well, my food is great. And where is everyone? Well, it's not enough. If you if people don't think about you a lot, if you don't have the right PR, the right social media and things, you become as hot you are today, you become forgotten a year from now. And I think that's that's that's important people to know. And that's let's talk about the shift locally here in Delray with the restaurant. You know, it's one thing working for a big corporation, but all sudden you go back to your roots, write a small business and operates a lot differently. So talk about the restaurant here in Delray and and and how you really serve your customers in a unique way. We've opened what, three and a half years ago. You know, first we opened during COVID, which was a big risk. And a lot of people start questioning, like, I remember when I was building this restaurant, a restaurant we're closing in Delray. And it's like, you know, like, this is the time. And I thought it was the time. This is Florida was the place to be. Yeah, it was the only place. So so a lot of things were to our advantage. First, we opened something that was unique. So we have no competition on the ave to this date. To be honest, we don't have anyone compete with us. So my cuisine is a bit unique. Not that people come to us because they have no other choices. But it's also good to be the only game in town, you know, where when you want Italian, when you want Mexican, you want steakhouse, well, you can choose there's 10 of them, you know, within a couple blocks. So, you know, you might have to be Opa Tavern, which was kind of, they closed down after you guys opened. I mean, I don't know if we close them down. I think I think Opa was Greek or Lebanese. I think it's a bit different. Opa was a little bit more casual or more. And they've been there for a long time. You know, I think what we do is a bit different. First, our cuisine is very authentic. We cook and we everything from scratch every morning. We don't buy anything from the outside. So I think that has to do with, you know, when you come and you taste the cuisine, you will tell that everything is fresh. The hummus, the baba ghanoush, all that stuff is made fresh. I think what we also created is a bit of consistency. A lot of the restaurants start very well, and they don't do very well after that because they take it for granted. Well, I'm full, you know, who would notice if my hummus is fresh today? You know, we don't play that game. You know, we're very consistent on our product, where we buy our produce, our meats. So we stay consistent. In addition that, you know, I'm there, right? I mean, I think that has to do with something. As we expand the concept and we can talk about the new location, all that. That's where I think that the real test will come, right? If I'm in my restaurant and my daughter is helping me as well, and pretty good, I'm fortunate enough, 90% of our staff still with me from day one. And that's very unique. I think we treat them as family. We act like a family, and they haven't left us, you know? So consistency, people come back, not only they recognize me at the door, my daughter, but they also recognize a lot of the servers have been the same. They see the chef. I think that means a lot, right? A lot of the problem is sometimes you go to a restaurant and you feel like you're a VIP, and you go there every week, only to be welcomed by a hostess who doesn't know who you are, just because she just started. And suddenly it's like, you're no one. You're nobody. It's like, well, I'm Jason. I've been here at least five times this month, and yet no one is taken to recognize you, to welcome you, to sit you on your preferred table. You know, I think that's a lot. So can we talk to that for a moment? Because that's one of the most important things in business. Often when we interview a lot of business owners, they just can't scale because they just always have the excuse they can't find the right people, right? And the right people cost too much money. So, you know, it's just kind of a continuous circle, right? But it comes back to the leader. Like, what is the leader doing that they have figured it out? And you have. So can you just speak to like, what are the things that you're doing on a regular basis to keep the retention? Because, you know, when you look at in a corporate environment, like if you worked for Microsoft, it's easier to keep people because people are making very high salaries. You have rich benefits and they're kind of handcuffed to these larger corporations with restaurants, right? The turnover is typically way higher, right? You have people visit Florida for a year and then say, oh, I don't like it. I'm going to LA, I'm going to New York, right? And they come down and lots of times it's, it's a certain, certain portions of the business, it's, it's tips or it's lower wages, right? So then how do you, how do you handle that? And, and there's gotta be tricks that you're doing and tips to our audience that they could take from this episode. Well, yeah, I mean, I don't know if there's tricks. I think, look, we have a small restaurant. So, so it's, it's a bit of a bit easier, I would say. So I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie to you and say that, you know, it's easier running a restaurant, easing, maintaining. It's probably today the biggest challenge for any restaurant or, or hospitality to, to retain employees, just because first there's, there's more, there's more demand than supply. Perfect, right? There's more restaurants opening and there's more people who need chefs and cooks and servers and bartenders than, than there's, there's, there's supply. So it's, it's a market where, hey, if I'm not happy there, I have no problem leaving you tomorrow and find another job next door. Like, I'm not going to be out of a job, especially nowadays, this new generation and my generation, I will never leave a job before I have another job. Today, this new generation, cause I know from my daughters, not that they'll leave that job. It's like, I can kill less. I can, I can be, I can, I wouldn't take off for two weeks. I don't care. I will leave. Like the principle is like, I'm not happy. I'm going to leave, you know? So you have to navigate that. Saying that, you know, the restaurant is busy. So they are making money. That's for sure. Right? So no servers are in love with me just because, you know, they want to work for me. They are making money. And part of the success of the restaurant is keep them busy and, and navigate the schedule. I think one of those is being also flexible with their lives. Okay? There's no, you cannot anymore say, if, if someone comes and apply, I usually ask them what days you can work so I can work with you. Okay? Uh, there's no more, you have to work Monday to Friday and you have to work this. No one's going to do that. So instead of kind of, um, trying to tell them what to do, try to work through their schedule. I don't have, you know, I'd rather have 10 people who work part-time than three, then four people who full time. Right? So if, if so-and-so can work Monday and Tuesday, but cannot work on Friday and Saturday, it's fine. Other people can work Friday and Saturday. So we used to be very limited thinking. It's like more in ego. What do you mean? No, I need you Friday and Saturday because that's the business. Yes, I'm busy Friday and Saturday, but not necessarily during, during the busy season, November to April, my Mondays and Tuesdays are as busy as Friday and Saturday. So it's not a weekend business in that way anymore. You know, similar in Vegas, you know, you've been to restaurant Vegas on a Monday, Tuesday, if there's a convention, busier than Friday and Saturday. So it's not a weekend business anymore. Good restaurants are busy seven days. Corporate events down here, you know, there could be a, like we were at TEDx Del Rey, you're right. And it's a weekday usually. And then all of a sudden hundreds of people roll out and they go to our local restaurant. And before you know, you're, you're very busy. So flexibility, understanding where they come from, you know, you have single moms who have kids. Some people say, I cannot get to work till, till, you know, I open at five and I need everyone to be there at 3.30 to prep, but some people cannot be there 4.30. Okay. Is it a big deal? Probably not. I can work with you. Come at 4.30. You might have to stay later, you know? So if you want to make it happen, you'll be creative to make it happen. And I think that's probably what we do well, what I've done well in this economy since COVID, you adapt to what's, what's out there and you make it work. And tell us about the future, right? You've been doing this over three years and you said that you have one on the horizon. So look, I mean, when we opened, it was very apparent that from, from really the first three to six months, we knew that we had a winner on our hand, you know, people loved it. The place was busy, packed every day. And really it became kind of like a little gem, you know, in that way. So it was a matter of, of time to see if we can grow. I tried to grow, you know, we almost opened in Boca. I've always had West Palm Beach, you know. But for personal reasons, we don't have to go into it. It kind of delayed a bit the growth. But now I'm very happy to announce that a location actually around the corner from our location became available, which we just bought it a month ago. So Ammar, sometime by summer, by end of summer, we're going to move to a 4,200 square foot location. So now we're talking going from 50 seat to 180 seat, four liquor license, full bar, indoor, outdoor. So everything that actually we're lacking, you know, kind of first we're limited space, we're beer and wine. We didn't have a bar. We didn't have cocktails. Couldn't do happy hour per se. A lot of people, live music, entertainment, private parties. You know, we have a lot of demand for private parties. Offsite catering is a big kitchen now. So this is very exciting. So we're already starting the design of the restaurant. And sometime I will say by September, we should move to the new location and really we'll take Ammar to another level. It'll be a legit restaurant. Size wise, the offering will extend, the menu will evolve. Now we all open dinner only. So probably going to open lunch and brunch. So more work for me and for the staff. But that's exciting. That's kind of really an organic way that every, I think, little company dream of. And what's good about it, it's right around the corner. Like we're not moving to another city or another street. We probably won't lose people. We won't lose people. We'll add it. And then the other good news is, obviously, I'm a restaurant guy. So it just happened I'm Lebanese and I opened a Lebanese restaurant. Doesn't mean that's the only thing I need to know how to do. You asked me that question. Based on my experience, actually, that's the first Lebanese restaurant I opened. I've done, you know, working for the Four Seasons, for Kimpton, for Borgata, for Wynn. I've opened every concept you can think of, from Italian to Asian, to steakhouses, to Mexican. So I can do any concept because, you know, it's a restaurant way of doing business. So we are going to turn, I'm going to turn that little, so Ammar used to be a pizzeria and it had a wood-burning oven. So when I took it and got it out, I left the wood-burning oven because I do the pita right now from the wood-burning oven. It comes right fresh to the table. So it's kind of only natural to come back to that concept. We're going to redesign the restaurant a little bit and we're going to keep that wood-burning oven, which is amazing, you know, and we're going to turn it into an artisan pizzeria, a very high-end pizzeria. We're not going to be an Italian restaurant. We're not trying to compete with all the Italians. There's enough Italian restaurants. But we are really going to be known for the best pizza in town. Oh, I love it. I love pizza. High ingredients, potentially sourdough base, and, you know, a little probably appetizer, a great small... Will it be like a restaurant or more of like a to-go? No, it'll be a restaurant. Okay. It'll be a restaurant. I mean, of course, we do to-go a lot right now. 30% of my business is delivery at Omar. So that business will stay strong. I think nowadays, any restaurant that doesn't really focus on that is missing a lot, especially with the pizza. Even though the high-end pizza, like an artisan pizzeria, Neapolitan pizza or sourdough, doesn't travel very well, to be honest. But I think we can make it happen. And there's enough people living their way close by that might want to, you know, so... But it's a fine dining, it's a sit-down restaurant. It's going to be a beautiful, cozy, 46-seat restaurant. The wood-burning oven is right there. You'll see the chef making the pizza. And then a great eclectic wine list, you know, that will complement, obviously, the pizzeria. Vegan pizza at all? The vegan, of course. All my daughters are vegan. I don't do dairy. So I'm like, I want a vegan pizza. So we'll do a vegan pizza. We'll see if it's gluten-free. Well, you know, I mean, we'll play in all light. You put some vodka sauce on a slice of pizza. No one does that down here. I love, you know, up in New York, New Jersey, you know, you saw vodka sauce on a lot of slices and people love the... He's like, no. He's like, no. I'm not saying no, I don't... Vodka sauce is classy. We are playing with, we are working on the menu. I would never say no. I never thought of putting vodka, but, hey, you know, you never know. Everything is possible. Well, New York, we saw everything. New York and Jersey had the best pizza, right? So many shops, you know, really, you know, put a lot on pizza. A shrimp, chicken parm, barbecue. And I fell in love with pizza just growing up on Long Island. And then living in New York City, there was everything under the sun, of course. That's interesting. I mean, I haven't been to, like, a high-end pizza place before. So that's, like, not just... I mean, there are other pizza places in Delray, but not, like, a nicer, almost fine dining atmosphere. Yeah, I mean, it will be focused on pizza. Yeah. You know, I think that you'll go there because you're really craving a pizza. Yeah, yeah. Great pizza, great ingredients, wood-burning, you know, kind of coming from an oven. So, you know, there are some good pizzas in Delray, but I don't think that anyone focuses only on pizza. It's like in Italian, you know, and they serve pizza. It's more like a goat. You know, so, yeah, I think we'll do something a bit special, and hopefully that concept work, we want to grow with that concept. You know, I'm a big fan of pizza concept, and hopefully we'll take it also to... Exciting. Burrata. I just had a pizza with burrata on it, and it was amazing. I'm craving it right now as we're talking about pizza. I know, I'm like, mmm. No one puts burrata in sauce. That's exciting. Yeah, so a lot of exciting things happening, a lot of things. So, but yeah, by the end of summer, I think sometime by September, October, hopefully both places will be operational, and people coming back to Delray for the season, they're going to see, they're going to get some surprises from us on both sides. I'm going to show our audience everything, so I'm going to go head over to your profile. And when you say you want to expand, are you saying, like, just expand in Florida or all over the country? Well, I don't know about all over the country. I mean, look, my ambitions are very high, but I'm also realistic. You know, I'm not very young, and I, you know, I think time is, you know, I'll be happy. Look, Florida is big, and I think that if we can have three, four, five of this pizzeria, you know, in South Florida or even West, and a couple more on Mars, I'll be content. You know, restaurant business is hard, right? You can grow, and you can bring people in, and you can delegate, you know, but, you know, maybe in the past, if I didn't spend the last 15 years working for companies and executives, which I loved because I traveled the world and lived in different countries, but it'd be easier to do it, you know, maybe when you're in your 30s or 40s. Now, you know, I think that the focus will be, you know, take it day by day, I would say. Definitely would like to do, you know, three, four pizzerias, maybe one a year if that's successful, and potentially do another one or two or more, depending on the location, you know. Restaurants are tough too, you know. I mean, labor is a problem, obviously, and, you know, funding is a problem. You know, restaurants don't come easy, you know. This is not, especially the way I do it or the way it's done, right? You know, I don't just take restaurants and just paint the walls anymore. You know, we change, we take restaurants, we revamp them, we put our concept, our vibe into them. It costs a lot of money to do that. Can you speak to our audience about just the differences in the corporate environment versus being a business owner for a moment, right? Because you held some top positions in Las Vegas and Atlantic City, and, you know, it's nice to have a salary, right? It's also not nice in the event, you know, you get laid off during COVID, right, when things shut down, all the casinos were shut down. So can you just speak to our audience for a moment, just sharing like the pros and cons of each? Because there's a lot of people within our OWL community that are on the fence, right? They typically work nine to fives, and they're working as a solo entrepreneur, about 80% of our app users currently are solo entrepreneurs. But a lot of them, you know, are nine to fivers and trying to grow, you know, that side hustle to one day do it full time. But I think it's important for people to see the kind of the differences, what you gave up in the past, and, you know, just the pros and cons of each side. Oh, do you have another hour for that? I, look, I, I loved my my corporate career, not because I was I was working for people. But in my particular is I worked for an amazing companies. And in amazing cities, when I was in Las Vegas, you know, when was the top and working with Thomas Keller and Wolfgang Buck. So I was running the best restaurants F&B program. So it was always at a very high level. Similar with Borgata, similar with Four Seasons, you know, I was the corporate vice president for Four Seasons. In APAC, I lived in Singapore, and I did all the project for Four Seasons in Asia Pacific, China, Japan, South Asia, India, you name them. So I, the development part of it, the look, pros, you have a salary, you don't have to worry about it. You know, you have your bonuses. You travel, there's all this benefit, you don't have to worry about it. And you play with other people's money. So when I want to design and open a $5 million restaurant or $8 million restaurant, it wasn't a problem. I didn't need, technically, I was responsible for budget, but the budget was big. It was about pocket, you know, pocket, you got to do it. So you're working with the best restaurant designers of the world. We're talking David Rockwell, Tony Chi, Avroko, you know, so you'd love to go to the meeting, you'd love to see the opening of a restaurant. You also have the luxury to hire people, great minds, that you can bring them from all over. So when I was in China, we'll bring people from Dubai, we'll bring people from France, we'll bring pastry chefs from Switzerland. Money wasn't a problem. So, but you're working for people. So look, I could have continued my career path and I would not have any regrets because I really learned a lot and I work with some amazing people and most of them are still my friends, you know. But being an entrepreneur is a different, you know, ball game, I would say. There's no room for mistakes when you're an entrepreneur. And everything comes on your head, you know. I slept very good when I was working for people. I don't sleep very good anymore. Just because it's not about being stressed, it's about worrying, you know. You feel you're responsible for a lot of people, okay. Everyone, the success right now, I feel like Ammar has to succeed, has to grow because I have to make sure that my employees are taken care of and I have to provide them a way to grow with me, including my family, you know. So, and then, you know, your funding, right, is limited. So you learn to do more with less, right. And you end up taking on different hats as well, you know. Where today, to this date, I'm still kind of the accountant, you know. I'm still kind of, yeah, I do have a marketing company, I do have a PR, but I'm the kind of navigating this. You have to become a generalist versus a specialist. And people don't speak to that enough. It's like you are a specialist in a corporation because there's a thousand employees and often people don't realize, like, when you're an entrepreneur, like, you could be a specialist at a certain thing, at the restaurant, but all of a sudden, you've got to be an accountant, right. You have to know your numbers, you have to be a leader, you have to just know the right things on the food, right. You have to look at every element, like, all the time. And then you have to make sure that you are on the floor. Like, you know, I, at this point, I couldn't afford a general manager. You know, I have a couple of managers, but it's not easy, you know. Like, you have to worry about paying yourself first, right. And you have to make sure that you have to pay the rent. So if you have to work six days and won't be opened, you know, I don't think I took a day off probably till after 12 months, you know. It was me working there. If I wasn't there, the restaurant will not function. Not because I'm micromanaged, it's because there was no one else. Like, I couldn't trust anyone to understand what I want to get there. Now it's different. Now, you know, there are people, I'm not there, obviously, right now. So there's someone there, hopefully is doing a good job. But there are, you know, and that's great. So it takes time, it takes patience, it takes hard work. But I guarantee you, being an entrepreneur is the toughest job in the world, okay. And you can tell me I'm an executive and running a billion-dollar company, okay, that's different than being an entrepreneur. You could fail as an entrepreneur. As much as I felt, or people know, and a lot of people do it both ways. I know people who left their corporate jobs, you know, and opened their own restaurant, and they failed. It's like, how can you fail? You know so much about the restaurant. How many chefs, believe it or not, who are amazing chefs, and worked for Thomas Keller, or Wolfgang Puck, or worked for this big organization, only decided to open their own restaurant, and they failed as well. Even though they know how to cook. And that's interesting, right? It's different, because it's a different sacrifice, a different commitment. It's a different level of stress, and not many people can deal with that stress. You have to have a different... Oh, look at Google Reviews, it's a great example. Like, you're in the upper fours, I checked it out. Yeah. But like, the stress of like, someone came to your restaurant, and you know, wrote something, and here you're the owner. Like, why would they list that? It could have been like, somebody called in, and was put on hold for two minutes, and they got frustrated, and left you a negative review. I'm just using that as an example. And you're sitting there like, really? You're going to bash my business over something, you know, something simple? But that's the world we live in today, and when you work for that brand, you're like, whatever. You're not even thinking about the reviews. When you're the owner, you can't sleep at night. You're just thinking, that review is just spinning and spinning. But that goes over and over. You know, we have your account on, it's like, you know, it's like, the orange seats, it's the cups, it's the plates. It's like, every dollar spent, you know, really goes through your mind when you're working in a corporate environment. You're like, okay, I like those, let's buy those. You're not thinking one's a dollar more, right? And you know, going down to like, the presentation of the food, how it's served, right? You talked about the oven, and how you love that it comes out fresh, you know, immediately, and how when someone grabs it, it's just like, it's in, it just melts in their mouth, right? So I understand, as an entrepreneur, right? That's no different than this podcast studio, right? Like, the television, like everything put in a certain position, right? It matters when, you know, you have to make everything work with a certain amount of funding. Because most entrepreneurs don't have unlimited funding, especially in the restaurant business. Martins, we all know, are thinner. And as an entrepreneur, there's really no going back. What I mean by that, you could have a corporate job, and you don't like it, you can make a move, right? You know, it's like, okay, whatever. You can't change your mind, entrepreneur, right? You know, like, trust me, I woke up many nights, I was like, oh my god, you know, I wish I was still with Four Seasons, you know, in the Maldives right now, you know, like, whatever. That's it, you commit, and you have to stick with it, you have to be patient, you're gonna doubt yourself many times, you know, there was times where I doubted myself, whether I should do this, whether I can grow, should I not worry about it. But then, you know, then you go out, then you come at night, and you see the restaurant being packed, and you see all these people leaving, you know, and then you go back, it's like, oh my god, I did the right thing. Like, it's that satisfaction by seeing your guest happy, seeing a restaurant increasing revenue, and every day busier and busier and busier, it keeps you motivated, you know, and I'm willing for that. Isn't it crazy? It's like the ups and downs. The ups and downs, yeah. Like, you could talk to me on a Monday, and I'm like, I'm just not in it, right? You know, you talk to me on a Thursday or Friday, and I'm like, you know, I'm on the right end of that roller coaster. I'm like, this is amazing, I love everything. And what we are doing now is we're looking at different experts that are on the OWL app, and what Ellie's gonna do is, she's gonna pick one, and we're gonna call them live into the show. And that's what's really unique about this podcast. It's kind of like the old radio days, right? They would call in, but in this case, we just, we, yeah, let's get her on. So she actually, he went live, and within like a minute, she called him earlier. Let's do it. I want to call her back, because she was wanting to talk to you. Hey, Gina Brown, how are you doing? You're live on the OWL podcast. Earlier, this is Ellie, by the way, hi. Hi, Ellie. So you called Nicholas, and I ignored your call, because I was showing him how to use OWL. I guess it was about an hour ago. So he is actually our podcast guest today. So I'm assuming you maybe got to look at his profile. I'm not sure if you did, to know what he does. He's worked in the restaurant business for many years, very high-stress corporate environments, casinos all over the world. He now owns his own restaurant in Florida. So do you have any questions for him? A question for him would be like, what's the drive of staying in the service industry for food and restaurants? I love that question. Yeah. Because it's a hard industry. What's the drive? Well, I think we mentioned this a bit, is in my particular situation, that's all I've done during my life. So I'm used to it. I don't see myself doing anything else. So I grew up with it. I like the ups and downs. I like the stride. And I think this is one of those industries that is always changing. And every day is different. So the idea that you always have to keep up with the trend, the idea that you always have to work on your menus and change the menus, the idea is you can always find a new concept or a new restaurant and design it. I was in operation for a long time, which means running the restaurant. But then when I worked for Four Seasons, I became more in the development side, which means creating concept, designing the restaurant. And that really is an amazing part. Like right now, I wake up in the morning and I'm texting my designer at 7 a.m. in the morning. It's like, she's still asleep. I'm telling her, sending her Pinterest. What do you think of this? What do you think of this chair? So I think the excitement of creating something new and seeing that kind of evolve from day one on paper and then becomes reality. And then you start seeing the restaurant being painted and the flooring and then you start hiring the people. And then you get to a point where it's like it's like a show. It's like a movie. You open the curtains and boom, the restaurant is there and everyone's coming and everyone. And then, you know, so the satisfaction of seeing your hard work kind of paying off. I think it's kind of a I don't know, say a drug here, kind of an addiction. It's addicting. It is an addiction. Being in the entertainment industry, there's a lot of similarities and parallels. Another quick question is how do you know when to make those changes? What are indicators like, oh, we should we need to plan something else because this isn't working or whatever? I mean, so two things. First, a lot of the restaurant businesses, sometime mom and pop restaurants, you know, I come from corporate world. So I know that analytical, the analysis and the accounting part of it has to be hand in hand with the great food service. So what difference is a lot of mom and pop operations. They don't evolve because they don't look at the books and they don't look at their sales mix and menu mix. And they say, well, my food is great and I know this is same pizza I'm serving. So why people, you know, you have to really evaluate your business like everything else, like you can evaluate your life and evaluate your business and say, what am I doing right or wrong? So first of all, the restaurant gets beat up. Okay. A busy restaurant gets beat up. So if you think that the same chairs and the same bathroom and the same oven would last forever, you might be a lot of people think that they can save money. At the end, they don't save money because you start, you know, things will break down in the middle of the shift. And then now suddenly you cannot do something, you see a breakdown. So you have to keep maintaining it and you have to put back the money. So don't take all the profit out. Okay. You can definitely get distribution. And if you made a hundred thousand dollars this year, whatever it is, don't take it all and say, oh my God, I made a hundred thousand. Take 70, take 75, leave 25% in the business and use this to reinvest in your business. That will give you the longevity to be for now, whether you invest in your menus, in your, in your kitchen equipment and, and repainting your restaurant, you know, maybe training, you know, maybe bring, you know, some more training and to, you know, maybe, you know, even use that money to maybe give raises, I would say, or, or bonuses, because that also will motivate your, your, your, your team to, to stay with you longer. Right. It's very hard for a chef that other than him making a good salary, I think giving him a bonus at the end of the year, it will make him twice, think twice about leaving you. I would say not that because of the money, but I think it's an appreciation as well. Like, okay, my boss values me. He, he understand that I worked very hard. So I think you just have to play that game and be very conscious of that. Otherwise, you know, that whole success short term will not, will not last. I don't think it will last long term. Have you ever shifted too early? Have you ever shifted too early? Like you saw an indicator and you went the wrong direction where like the data coming in was good and almost like you had this like hunch. You see a lot of entrepreneurs do this. They're like, Oh, I think, you know, this is going to be better, you know, to try something out in a business. And then it actually backfires, right. The, the financials come in, which are the data indicators. Right. And you're like, Ooh, made a mistake here. Yeah. No, look, I mean, I don't think every, every decision I made was, was right. You know, but, but I think that, uh, I don't know. I feel like I have enough experience to, to, to, to, to be patient sometime with the data. Uh, and then, and then if I make the wrong decision, which I've done before, I will not admit it, but I've, I've done it before is you also have to be smart enough as an entrepreneur to realize that and switch back. Yeah. And some people get so stuck with their decision ego and, and the ego is like, Oh no, I cannot be wrong. You know? So sometime, you know, you have to take a step back and say, okay, that was the wrong decision. Maybe I took something off the menu that, that, you know, was labor intensive, but it was very popular, you know, and then one, one guest, two guests, three guests ask about it, why it's not there. I think it's indicator that maybe it was popular and, you know, uh, similar with that. So I think, I think it's again, sitting there and, and, and important is, is listen to, to your guests. So you listen to two people important is your guests and your staff. If you ignore both of them, I think it's, it's a recipe for disaster. Uh, doesn't mean that you have to please everyone. You know, I don't just because a guest told me, you know, he'd rather have this on the menu. It doesn't mean I'm going to like react because sometime that's not who I am. And I, and I'm okay, not satisfying everyone. You cannot be everything for everyone. Right. So, uh, but in the same time, there's some indicator coming from the guests, especially I would say not new guests, repeat guests, the guests that comes and love my brand and my restaurant. And if they say, Hey, Nicholas, we've been coming here for three years, the last two visits, you were not on point, whether, whether that particular dish wasn't great or that serving rate. If you dis that kind of disregard them, that's a problem because that guest cares. He showed me that he cares and he had been coming here for the last three years, consistently once a month or once every two months. So if he's going to say something is because he cares different than a guest who might come once a time. Well, you know, why don't you have this on the menu? And I was in Lebanon and Dubai. It's like, well, okay, fine. Go back to Dubai. Like, you know, like I'm not interested to have everything on the menu. I want to do what I want to do. Tell me if what you taste is, is great. That's all I'm interested. Don't tell me what I don't have on the menu because I can't have it on the menu. My kitchen cannot handle, you don't know my infrastructure, you know, all that stuff. So thanks Nicholas, much success, continued success and keep, keep feeding us. We need restaurants. Come on down to South Florida. We'll all join together. Okay, Gina. I'll hold you to that. I'll be there. Deal. Okay. What should we leave her? Should we leave her a one, two, three or four or five star review? What do you think, Nicholas? Five star for sure. Okay. Gina's getting five star. We surprised her with a call. Great. She answered. Great questions. Great. And that's the power of the Owl app. You can instantly connect with folks like Gina. Here's who you just spoke with right here. Wellness mentor, mind, body, and soul, virtual art therapy, visual artists, author, podcasters, producer, and actor. So here we go. Ready? You met her. Now you go on her podcast and that's the chain reaction and the ripple impact of platforms like Owl. It's a tool, right? If you want to go in here and connect with her, you can instantly chow with her for $2. And then we got Ron Taro who's up there. Um, he was actually one of my mentors at the FU Tech runway. He's president of new world angels. So how, how hard is it to get in touch with a guy like that? Right. And he's putting himself available for 10 bucks for 10 minutes, you know, worth every penny because time is so sensitive, uh, for so many executives, as you know, right. And owl gives you access at a reasonable price to connect and just chat and connect. You just don't know where conversations will go. So it's a little tour of the owl app and look at all these people on calls right now. It's pretty cool. Orally called us earlier. She's one of our big ambassadors and I had to hang up on her to do a very good job. She'll call you later. Okay. Um, but the power of owl is sometimes people forget is, is just the, uh, the, the side, uh, things that could happen to benefit your business. So many times people say, oh, I'm in the restaurant business, not for me. I'm like, well, you need marketing, right? So you get on podcasts that could be local, like, like owls, right. And get more media attention to your brand and get more foot traffic through the brand or potentially even virtual. And then they're visiting Florida on vacation and they're like, oh, I taught he was on the podcast. Like I want to go there when I visit or they tell their friends, you know, so. Or other restaurant owners. Like we've had Kapow Noodle Bar, for example, on the show and he runs subculture group and you could just connect and be like, what's working for you? What's working for us? And just connect with like-minded professionals that are in, are in similar boats, of course. Or someone like Danny, who's on a call right now, who does more in the corporate environment. And then all of a sudden he's like, Hey, my next corporate event, I'd like to do it, you know, at your location. So when people start seeing like the bigger vision of owl, it really comes alive. And of course you're a go-getter. So you're going to absolutely enjoy the platform. So everybody listening, he will be live on owl the next seven days. We're featuring him as an expert. Just go check it out on Instagram account and then follow him within the app. So you get that notification when he makes himself available. So Ellie, this is your favorite segment of the show. Why don't you tell our guests what is about to come? You'll get it. Being a casino man here. Yeah, the big gamble. So yeah, we do a bet at the end of every show. So we don't really tell our guests about it. It's a surprise. So yeah, a little wager. So basically we ask you to do something. If you complete it, then you complete the task that we ask of you. You get something from us. If you don't do it, we get something from you. So let's see, what do we want? Do you have any ideas before I decide? Well, of course it has to be something about a group team outing at his restaurant. Well, yeah, I know what we want. That's part one of the bet. No, but what do we want him to do? Actually, no, I have an idea. So how about what we would ask from you is to get within this week, so by next Wednesday, you don't have a lot of time, but you know a lot of people, you have employees. So I would say, see if you could get five downloads for the app. Oh, announce it. Yeah, you have group meetings. So that would make sense. You could say, hey guys, with your staff meeting, get on this app. We'll send you a link. You'll have a special referral code. I'll show right now. So inside the menu, every person has invite friends, get $10. You just hit the copy link. And of course, you just share it on an email to all your employees. Or whoever, it doesn't have to be employees. Like, hey, download this app. It's pretty cool. Your children, if they're looking for anyone that likes to network. So you said five? Yeah, I would say. It's easy. I have four daughters here. That's already four. Yeah, exactly. You'd be surprised. They'll go to the app store, but then they click download and then actually sign up. Because so many people, when it comes to mobile platforms, we live in a TikTok environment, right? It's next video, next video. And once they see like name, email, they're like, oh, I have to add that. And then they quit. I gotcha. Right? Surprisingly, like 99% of apps fail. So yeah, so we're going to ask you to do that. So if you get these five downloads within the week, so you then would get something from us. So that's the gamble. Anything on your mind. So it could be, okay, what do we want to, what can you get? That's up to him. He's got to think about it. We can't give him the ideas. What are we getting? Let's do our end. If he fails. Okay, well, if you fail, we get a free meal. We get a team outing, our group right here. Three of us. And I'd like a tasting. You know, one of my negatives, you know, with restaurants, I just always want a tasting because I always go to the restaurants. And then I always get like the four items out of the 30, 40 on the menu. And I'm always like, I want to, I want to try everything, but I always stay in my zone because I know what I like. And I always get frustrated. That's why I think I like a lot of places that Ellie was mentioning is like, where you go with a group and you do a lot of tastings. Those are always fun. So I'd like a little bit of a tasting. Okay. So that's what I want. So if he loses, that's, is that okay with you? That's what we get. Okay. So then if he wins, okay, what can he get from us? You win, you get Ellie to sing at the restaurant. There you go. She'll bring her tribe for free. Yeah, sure, why not? She will waive her costs. I'll bring my people. I'm selling Ellie. Bring your people. All right. What kind of singer are you? A lot of people that dine there would know the songs that I would be playing. So it could be like a different, just, you know. It might, it might be good. Like you will come and you'll, you know, sing one night and you also have dinner. So you will also be happy this way. Okay. It's a deal. Shake on it. Shake on it. There we go. We got a deal. Okay. Everybody listening. Thanks for joining us today. And of course, if you want to connect with Nicholas, just go right to his profile right here. And then all you got to do is click the follow button right here and make sure you receive that notification when he makes himself available. And now it's a dollar a minute. I mean, that's not going to see. A dollar for 10 minutes. 10 minutes. 10 minutes. And I'm going to look and that's not going to be. Request to go live. See, I'm requesting you. You'll get a text message. Oh my email. Yeah. That's for the platform. Once you get the 10 calls, then you could, you could raise your price up, but I'm fine. I'm happy below because it's about just learning the platform and connecting. And the second people jumped their price up early on. We found that people missed the idea and the concept that they thought it was about making money on the calls. It's a make, it's making relationships from the calls and the bigger opportunities. So that's why we do the dollar for the first. Donate the money. For sure. It's not, it's not about the money. It's absolutely. Okay. Well, thanks everybody for listening. Take care. Post-production for the OWL podcast is done with care by Ocean Tree Creative.